Posts by Number 6

24

Upon learning of a terminal illness would you return to being a JW to appease your family?

by NVR2L8 in

this is an hypothetical question...i am doing well.

but i was thinking about how my jw family, grandchildren and all will feel when their inactive grandfather dies with no hope of being reunited in paradise.

of course there would be immediate rejoicing if i came back to the "truth" and a surge of conditional love from the "friends".

Number 6

Diagnosed and survived Non Hodgkins Lymphoma this year.

Despite the possibility of my demise, returning to the Watchtower never even crossed my radar. Ever.

32

30 years after leaving utterly unrecognisable

by Number 6 in

this is the first time i have posted on here in many years..... i seldom visit now although this forum was instrumental to me in gaining my sanity in the early 2000's and recovering from the watchtower religion.. by chance tonight i was on youtube and caught a jw.org video which out of curiosity prompted me to look at the official website and amongst other things i looked up the music section.. why that i hear you ask?

music is my passion and nothing reminds me more or evokes more memories than the kingdom songs i grew up listening to.. i am 49 years old and my mother was baptised in 1974. i grew up in the era of pink songbooks and green bibles.

of the theology of fred franz and types and anti-types.

Number 6

This is the first time I have posted on here in many years....

I seldom visit now although this forum was instrumental to me in gaining my sanity in the early 2000's and recovering from the Watchtower religion.

By chance tonight I was on YouTube and caught a JW.org video which out of curiosity prompted me to look at the official website and amongst other things I looked up the music section.

Why that I hear you ask? Music is my passion and nothing reminds me more or evokes more memories than the Kingdom Songs I grew up listening to.

I am 49 years old and my mother was baptised in 1974. I grew up in the era of pink songbooks and green bibles. Of the theology of Fred Franz and types and anti-types. Anyone who couldn't explain 1914 and the 7 times was considered weak. We studied the yellow book "Gods Kingdom of a Thousand Years" and other "deep" material at our group studies. Watchtower Studies were 40 paragraphs long and regularly overran on Sunday mornings.

But above all else it was the songs that evoked the most memories of that era.

When I got online in 2000 it was amazing to me that the 1995 "generation" teaching had happened, but overall, the religion I grew up in was still that: recognisable to me as such.

Now in 2019 it has changed to the point i no longer recognise it. Nothing. Presentation and media dominate. Teachings take second place to appearance.

And above all else all the songs have changed.

I despise this religion and all that it represents. But..... when i listen to those old songs I remember a time in my youth now long gone; and its really weird.

I hope there are those my age out there who know where I am coming from.

35

Critical Differences: JW's Today Vs The Past

by metatron in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses have always been a fringe, anti-intellectual movement, almost by definition.

there is nothing new about faddish health concerns, attitudes that ignore history and science or even beliefs that defy common sense ( false prophecy for what, 130+ years?).

however, there are two differences with jw's of the past that will prove critical for the survival of the organization today.. 1) poor financial conditions - in the past, it was possible to hold all sorts of nonsensical beliefs and still be a functional member of the human race, generally.

Number 6

I think Londo and Old Goat have it bang on.

The Watchtower of today isn't a patch on its former self. I grew up in this organisation in the 70's and even back then there was a sense of urgency and anticipation. The brothers and sisters studied 'deep' articles and prided themselves on knowing the detail of prophecy, to the last detail. I can remember sitting in living rooms at group studies poring over books like 'Babylon the Great' and 'The Nations Shall Know..." etc. Its all crap of course but at the time we took it deadly seriously.

It was considered a shameful thing if you didn't know the 'basics' such as how to explain how the 1914 date was arrived at. [pre 95].

Nowadays the average publisher would struggle to explain anything other than 'do what the organisation says' and repeat verbatim whats in the latest dumbed down publication.

I can remember being at doors with publishers who would engage in lengthy intellectual conversations with people and take the time to study and research what they believed in.

OK now I know its all bullshit, but the point is that we believed in it and prided ourselves in using publications and the bible to KNOW, UNDERSTAND AND more importantly DEFEND what we believed in.

Today coming home from work, I saw the new lite witnesses outside the railway station.... just standing a good 10 feet away from their cart with their literature on it... desperately hoping not to be engaged in conversation.

If this had been my life as a JW I might not have had much to complain about!

The JW organisation is a shadow of its former self.

Maybe in 100 years they will be the answer to a Trivial Pursuit question "Name the american religious group who used to preach door to door but fizzled out in the early 21st century?"

We can live in hope!

Craig

36

What will the world be like in 2100?

by slimboyfat in

very interesting video from futurist james burke.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24331106.

he believes scarcity will be a thing of the past because of nanofabricators (sounds like a replicator for star trek fans).

Number 6

"WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 2100?

Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent days among serious students JWN. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 2100 will mark the end of war and famine covering 6000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion".

Seriously? Impossible to predict. Like comparing 1913 to 2013. My view tends towards humanity self destructing but I hope for my kids and their kids sake it gets even better than now.

Craig

62

7/15 WT- Insane, Far Fetched, Narcissistic "New Light " about the FDS

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.

but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.

alleged " faithful slave " .

Number 6

Having read this thread and several others like it these last months has got me to thinking.

This is the tipping point where any credibility they had as a spiritual organisation has gone.

As long as they vaguely identified the ‘Faithful and Discreet slave’ as some globe spanning group of people who all had an input into the theology of the Watchtower and never demanded loyalty to a small group of individuals, they could still claim a degree of plausibility with not only the rank and file but other religious groups.

They could always claim they were serving Jesus and Jehovah as an entirety with a humble approach, no one better than anyone else.

Now though, they have shown their hand and as punkofnice points out there is no way back.

Their current stance makes them out to be a cult with loyalty demanded to specific individuals in one place.

It will be interesting to see where this takes them.

Craig

14

After Armageddon...Then What?

by Cold Steel in

i've read the sarcastic short stories about it, but seriously, i'm stumped.. after armageddon, what then?

yeah, i know they'll bury our bodies or cart them off to be burned, but then the earth will become paradise and then what??

seriously, what do they (the leaders) do to remain relevant?.

Number 6

You only have to read a post-apocalyptic novel such as ‘The Day of the Triffids’ to name one such fiction to realise the utter bollocks of the JW Armageddon scenario as it stands.

Take for example a city the size of London, whose 2012 population is some 15 million souls in the metropolitan area according to wikipedia.

So big J wipes all but a few thousand of the faithful [sorry I have no idea of the actual numbers but lets assume that] out and then what?

The power is out, so no lighting heating or refrigeration. Food will start to rot and smell attract vermin.No way of harvesting what’s out in the country as too few resources or time to do that.

Even if it could be done the petrol would run out very quickly with no way of replenishing it.

The is no communication because the power to telephone exchanges and cellular base stations is down.

So how do the HQ in New York communicate with London; or anywhere?

All the dead would start to decompose within a few days and even if the animals had a field day feasting, what about those indoors the animals cant get at? Disease would start to spread very quickly.

Who would inoculate against the diseases? What proportion of the JW’s have medical training?

As with the British nuclear war film ‘Threads’ of the early 80’s, our urban lives are so connected with each other in a myriad ways that if it all collapsed overnight, we would to put it mildly, be fucked!

You only have to start to think about just WHAT it would be like that many unanswerable questions crop up and I have only scratched the surface above with a few teasers that come to mind as I am a fan of post apocalyptic fiction.

So as it stands even just thinking about total collapse of society overnight doesn’t bear any weight.

Off course if you buy into the whole Jehovah and the angels will sort it, then your ok, but in reality when you REALLY think about it, there’s far more questions that spawn dozens more.

No wonder the watchtower doesn’t want us to speculate.

Craig

47

Growing up as a JW was a form of mental abuse for me

by Miss Fitt in

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Number 6

All those experiences her pretty much mirror my own.

Being at school as a JW was a long list of things we couldn't do. Every opportunity that presented itself was one where we would look wierd and stand out as odd.

Physical intimidation was largely absent [thank goodness] however there was the daily running the gauntlet of jibes, remarks,snide comments and the general feeling of being disheartened about what the day would bring.

My ar*ehole of a stepfather also used to take the greatest of delight in dragging me round territory in the FS knowing I would be brought literally face to face with school mates, if not at their doors then certainly out in the street. It was pure hell.

Trussed up like a chicken on a hot sunny sunday afternoon seeing the looks of contempt on school mates faces, knowing that in some 24hrs I would be facing comments and ridicule at school. And unlike my school mates, my step father was not shy at lifting his hands for his percieved infringement of watchtower rules.

Our parents should hang their heads in shame for what they put us through.

Craig

134

Who left or got stumbled over the 1995 generation thing?

by Julia Orwell in

or the 2000's generation thing?.

how did you feel?

how did it help you wake up?

Number 6

Having read through this thread again, I am amazed at the uniformity of opinioin; those of us who are out look back with utter astonishment at how we were duped and how we could have ever have bought into it in the first place.

I too agree with John Mann, its only now with a distance of some 17+ years past since 1995 we can see just how much damage has been done. They had painted themselves into a corner and came up with the overlapping generation as a get out. Never is their worst nightmare could they have envisaged the internet age we live in where all their printed foolishness would come back to haunt them.

But now? The price they have paid is very dear, an apathetic membership with no retention of young people. Their only move now is to get more hardcore and crack down on those they have left in the hope that fear and guilt will retain memebers rather than in decades previously when zeal and a real desire to be a JW existed.

In my opinion they are completely f*cked! If they go mainstream they lose their hold over the members and they just lead 'normal lives' or they crack down harder and people just get tired, give up and walk or fade.

Good luck with all that Watchtower!! [Not]

Craig

119

How many of you followed the WTS direction on education years ago and have been screwed by it?

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

i'm really interested in this question because i've heard for years that if you forgo further education and go pioneering, when you have a family down the track you will get a good job because jehovah will provide for you because you pioneered.

as long as i was a kool-aid drinker, even then, i thought, "how does pioneering pay your bills?

surely education should come first.

Number 6

I was born in 1970, and my mother was suckered in when I was a baby.. fast forward to 1981 and she marries my asswipe of a stepfather, a real die hard true believer. You get the picture. Our household was 'theocratic'.

So with this background, one Saturday morning in July 1984, we are attending the 'Kingdom Increase' District Convention at Murrayfield, Edinburgh, and that mornings guilt trip is a symposium of talks making all family members feel bad about one thing or another. After the joys of song 164 we had at 11:00 'Youths Do Not Be Deceived' and after a 20 minute ear bashing at 11:20 we got 'Sons who make Jehovahs heart glad' which amongst other things spat vitriol at university education and a career in 'the world'

Well that was it! From that point onward my stepfather went out of his way to obstruct, discourage and just plain stop me going to any kind of further education. Just at the tender age of 14 when I was starting to take exams and consider my future.

Before I knew it i had 'married in the truth' and got bogged down in responsibility of jobs mortgages and children....

It's never too late to start again, but I have a 25 year lag behind my contemporaries.

Thank you Watchtower.

Craig

134

Who left or got stumbled over the 1995 generation thing?

by Julia Orwell in

or the 2000's generation thing?.

how did you feel?

how did it help you wake up?

Number 6

I was already gone in 1991 after how I was treated when I got married [long story] and basically ignored the Watchtower for a decade til I got online in 2000. Mentally I was still 'in' even though I had been out by a decade. I lived in daily fear of my demise at Armageddon!

When I discovered the generation change retrospectively in 1995, I was gobsmacked. The light went on in my head and I was OUT. That was it. I thought 'The b*stards don't have a clue'.

Sir82 is correct; the religious historians of the future will draw a line somewhere in the last 10 years or so and say 'here marks the beginning of the end of the Watchtower Society'.

I have for over 10 years now been out and I can barely recognise the religion of my upbringing. Gone are the days when the WT had the courage of their convictions and we studied 40 paragraph Watchtower Studies on a sunday talking about Gog of Magog and golden images and times and half a time etc.

Gone are the days of sitting in someones home for the group study poring over the 'Gods Kingdom' or 'Mans Salvation Book' getting lost in the depths of prophecies. That was the WT in the 70's, they put it out their knew what they believed in and stood by it; for better or worse.

Now they are just a bunch of chancing lightweights who are clinging on by their fingernails waiting for someone or something to come along to rescue them. You know what guys; it ain't gonna happen.

The Watchtower is a sad pathetic spent force of its former self; a pathetic parody. Your final demise cannot come soon enough.

Craig